0:00 98% of people still don't understand basic concepts to do with  bitcoin. Like what is the blockchain? What's 21 0:06 million supply cap? Uh and Block XYZ did a study that shows intent to purchase 0:11 actually increases by 50% following education. So those with limited knowledge are 28% likely to purchase. 0:17 Those with expert knowledge are 17% likely to purchase. So there's literally a direct correlation between someone 0:23 understanding what this thing is and actually purchasing it. But because 98% of people don't understand the basics, 0:28 there's a massive barrier to entry for people with our age group, which is is 0:33 going to be really important. They are going to be one of the largest and richest generations in history, Gen Z, 0:38 with 12 trillion of expected purchasing power. So we at JP, we see this as as future  bitcoin purchases that we're 0:46 going to need to unlock. But we're fighting a struggle, right? So, how can we gamify the experience, make it fun, 0:51 engaging so that you're actually learning about  bitcoin, earning  bitcoin, doing it the right way? 0:57 [Music] 1:03 Medium of Exchange is brought to you by Polaris Payments. Let's face it, for now, businesses still need to take fiat 1:10 and credit cards. Polaris Payments helps with all of your credit card processing needs using a consultative approach. You 1:18 can think of Polaris like a performance coach helping take your business to the next level when it comes to taking all 1:24 forms of money. For more information, check out polarispayments.com. Now, let's get back to the show. So, 1:31 welcome back to Medium of Exchange podcast. really excited to have uh my friend Oliver Porter on today to discuss 1:38 with us what he's building in the world of  bitcoin um with Jibby as well as how we're going to onboard the next 1:44 generation of  bitcoiners, particularly Gen Z. Uh so like like we were just saying Oliver, there's not much of a 1:50 structure or agenda that we need to talk through today other than we just want to learn more about your story, your background, and uh what got you into 1:57  bitcoin and how you got to where you are today. So, um, I guess just to hand the baton over to you, do you want to give a 2:03 little bit of background of who you are, where you are, and and your  bitcoin story? 2:08 Yeah. So, um, really excited to be here. Thanks. Thanks for the invite. Nice to meet you, Jason and Jack. You're a hero. Oliver Porter's Background and  bitcoin Journey 2:15 Uh, as always, pleasure. Yeah. So, I'm, uh, my background is software engineering. I've been a dev for six 2:23 years now and starting in the legacy world of finance and healthcare and then more recently moving into blockchain 2:31 unfortunately was my gateway drug to  bitcoin with with Swan. So I got the privilege of working with the Swan team 2:36 for a year on their mobile app and during that time really was privileged 2:43 to not only be a  bitcoiner so to sort of understand the philosophy to be a holder 2:50 myself uh but also to work in the space. So there was quite a nice sort of dual approach there of working in  bitcoin and 2:56 being a  bitcoiner for my my  bitcoin story. So, I first 3:02 heard about  bitcoin all the way back in 2015 and I was working uh for an education company and I had this this 3:09 kind of left field colleague who was a little bit unhinged who I love. Uh it's called Jordan and uh he's always been 3:16 sort of very anti-establishment and just the the the greatest guy in the world. 3:22 back back then I would have been I don't know like 19 18 19 some something like that and he told me about this thing 3:30 called  bitcoin and I didn't really understand it. I didn't actually understand what money was at that point. 3:35 I think I was young enough where I was truly just living paycheck to paycheck and so I didn't question authority and I 3:42 had only glowing things to say about the government. Uh so I wasn't in the space to sort of receive the message and it 3:49 was only really during 2020 with the COVID mania when I was locked in my 3:54 house for months on end did Jordan push the  bitcoin standard across the table 4:00 and he was like it's dude it's time like it's time you need to you need to sort of understand what's going on here and 4:06 that that led me down the rabbit hole which I'm I'm more than happy to talk about. So yeah, I just think 4:12 it fit me like a glove. Honestly, as a as a as a self-p profofessed libertarian, it it once I understood 4:17  bitcoin, it fit me like a glove and I I felt like I finally found my people. Yeah, that's that's awesome because and 4:24 I'm I'm actually very interested to to hear you say that it first struck you 4:29 from the economics and libertarian side of things and not necessarily the the 4:35 technical side as a software engineer. Um, so I guess to follow up there, can 4:40 you once you did enter the rabbit hole, how did you start to use your background 4:46 of uh software engineering and and uh that skill to really marry those two um 4:52 those two interests? Yeah, it's a it's a really really good question. At that 4:58 point, so this would have been 20 2020. Uh I was actually only just starting my 5:04 career as a software engineer. So I didn't really have vast experience. I wasn't drawing upon knowledge about 5:11  bitcoin to help understand  bitcoin. It was it was more the philosophy of libertarianism and freedom for me that 5:17 that was the the uh kicker because it does help when you are quite literally 5:24 forced into house arrest. I've I think always been very anti-establishment as well. And so I 5:31 mean teachers in school hated me. I was like the bane of their lives. It was a a 5:38 routine struggle to try to get me to do anything. So I think that the philosophy has always been ingrained. I didn't know 5:43 what that meant. Now the word would be obviously libertarianism and and  bitcoin. But in 2020, yeah, it was just 5:49 the thought of I have lost all of my autonomy as a human being. Um I want to 5:54 find some way to fight back. And at that point, I heard about  bitcoin through the lens 6:01 of it's like a a non-violent protest. It's this it's this money that is not controlled. It's freedom money. And so, 6:08 every time the government said something ridiculous, I would buy more  bitcoin and protest. So, it sort of it started this 6:13 chain reaction of  bitcoin is freedom money. What does that mean though? And that's where the  bitcoin standard came 6:20 in. It was sort of understanding, okay, well, government printed 40% of all 6:26 money ever created in one single freaking year, one year. And I went, well, that doesn't really feel like that 6:32 doesn't feel right. That doesn't sit right with me. And so, I sort of started to unpack like, what does that mean? 6:38 Well, when you print money, it's really just a mechanism that enables the rich 6:44 and powerful to line their own pockets while stealing from the general population. I I call it reverse Robin 6:49 Hood. And so that 40% of all money that literally was like a blunder bus, a gun 6:55 that was like scattered straight through the stock market and it went straight to to the elites. Um 7:02 that was the first point. And then the point below that would be well actually the dollar loses so much value every 7:08 year. It's basically toilet paper. Uh and so I started to research well how does you know how does the Fed actually 7:14 create the money? and oh wow the dollar has lost over 90% of its value since 7:20 1913. So yeah just to give you some some background insights uh that was my that 7:25 was like the lens through which I sort of started to understand what  bitcoin meant to me. That's awesome. No, I and I 7:30 think that that freedom aspect and that taking, you know, that quoteunquote silent protest or some people will say 7:37 vote with your vote with your wallet instead of, you know, your ballot um is 7:42 really a a first step that people start to look at. And just to to just to 7:47 clarify here, so where were you during this time in COVID? Were you in the States or you're from London if I'm if 7:53 I'm remembering correctly or England? Uh so where where were you in this time? How how did you kind of come to to this 8:00 realization of like, okay, they shut me down. I've always had this, you know, strain of rebellion in me, but now I'm 8:05 going to formalize it and become a an orange pill bitcoiner. Yeah. So, I I'm a 8:12 I'm a it's a weird phrase to say, I guess, but British British Texan, like 8:19 I'm a British cowboy. So, I was born in the States. My my family are from Fort Worth. Um, but I grew up in the UK. So, 8:26 we moved across when I was young. And so, I've I grew up in the UK. I went through education in in the UK. And so, 8:34 I always felt like an alien, truth be told. Like, I felt like I wasn't from there. Everyone around me was acting 8:40 different than me. And I just felt like something wasn't right. So, there was like a streak of rebellion because I was 8:45 in this strange place that didn't really fit me culturally. And so, 8:51 that's one aspect. And then the other aspect is obviously like uh 8:56 it feels like there's an inherent value of freedom that is written in my DNA 9:01 because that is Texas. Like that is the epitome of Texas. Like this place is just amazing. And so at that point in in 9:07 COVID I was in London and London was one of the worst places you could possibly be during during that time. One of the 9:15 first places to fully properly lock down. Um, and I'm talking where you would be arrested if you were sitting on 9:21 a park bench without a coffee in your hand. Uh, you would be swatted if you 9:27 had more than six people in your house in your private residence. 9:32 I was furious. I mean, every day I was just like, what the is going on? Like, what how how are people 9:40 so happy to sort of lie down and take the boot on the neck? And not only that, 9:46 but how like but like ratting out their neighbors too. Like how does this Yeah. What were the vibes there in London? I I 9:52 imagine there's probably not a ton of like freedomoriented libertarians. No. 9:59 cuz it like I was in Seattle and in Seattle it was it was in I mean it's it 10:04 doesn't sound like it was as intense as London but for for the United States I mean you would get u certainly not 10:10 carded off to prison but you know you would get like shamed like publicly if you basically left your house um people 10:18 were wearing masks while they drove their cars I mean the vibes were not at all uh libertarian pro- freedom vibes 10:27 similar similar in London. I would say there's definitely a resurgence of of nationalism that's happening right now 10:33 in the UK because there is such a I want to say wobbly cultural battle 10:39 that is going on right now. Um uh yeah, it's it's a problem. Uh but yes, I would The Concept of  bitcoin as "Freedom Money" 10:46 say that generally during that time there was a belief that if you didn't 10:53 follow the rules, you were you were going to kill grandma. And that meant that you had to rat literally rat out 10:59 your friends and family if you saw like a bunch of cars in the driveway. You knew that they were doing some kind of 11:04 gathering or some party. And so I've seen videos, I know people that 11:09 like were literally getting their door broken down because there there was more than six people in the room. That's 11:16 that's such a I didn't realize that you were born in Texas and you're technically a native Texan. Uh that is 11:21 Yes, sir. So that is a very interesting dichotomy of you have the free state of 11:27 Texas, you're in London in a in a a space where you're probably not able to, 11:32 you know, get like you're not able to necessarily 11:38 um uh feel like you're doing or able to take action against the what's going on, 11:44 right? So the only way to do that is what you were saying that silent kind of rebellion of buying  bitcoin. Uh and that 11:51 is just that's again freedom money. Um but 11:57 from there I guess take us on that next step of of the journey. So so you're 12:02 you're really like realizing that part of you is trapped in London, but you're 12:09 also learning and going down the rabbit hole of the the possibilities of  bitcoin and a a fully decentralized uh money 12:16 system. Now where what happens next? Yes. So 12:21 I was seeing all of the 12:26 uh macro things happening around the world which is like you have you shutting people in their homes the 12:32 economy is being shut like all this money this massive influx of money is hitting the economy and inflation is 12:37 going out of control. And so I'm seeing oh hell like this if this goes dark 12:43 we're talking like they're going to bring in CBDC's. And then I started reading about like central bank digital currencies and going, well, if I put my 12:50 tinfoil hat on, maybe this was the plan all along. It was to use something like this to their advantage. I'm not saying 12:56 that necessarily it was, you know, uh, strategically released, but maybe they 13:01 capitalized on being able to shut down the economy and all of the things the 13:06 [ __ ] Sorry, I don't know if I can cuss on this, but um, all the [ __ ] that that WE the World Economic Forum is 13:12 so happily to spout around. you'll have no belongings and you'll be happy. You'll owe nothing and be happy and 13:18 actually literally creating a book about COVID and and the things that they could try and do to the population because of 13:24 COVID. You start to worry that well if they use this to their advantage, maybe 13:29 we won't ever get our freedom back ever. Like if the plan was to shut us in our home and only let us out if we got the 13:36 vaccination and and signed up to the social credit score, the the vaccine passport app, you're suddenly allowed to 13:43 literally limit human beings. Like you can't go on public transport without showing your your pass. You can't go 13:49 into stores and buy anything without showing your pass. You can't go to restaurants. So there suddenly becomes 13:55 like a two-tier economy where you're like you can't you literally can't interact with the world without it. And 14:00 so I was like, "Holy [ __ ] like this is this is terrifying." And I knew that the 14:06 UK would be one of the first places to try and bring in something like this because people didn't fight it. And so I 14:11 went, "Well, there are two options." And those two options are Florida or Texas. 14:16 Those are your two options. The places that Florida was better than Texas for a period of time, but the places that that 14:22 kind of remained open and and they were fighting the totalitarianism. And I went, "Well, it's going to be one 14:27 of the two. Uh I like beaches. Florida could be fun, but I have this side of my family who I've never really reunited 14:34 with uh since moving across and it could be a good opportunity to to vote with my feet and go there and and try and 14:41 reconnect with them. So, I was fortunate enough to do that and I moved in uh 22. 14:47 Yeah, January 22 and I've never looked back. I will never be moving back to the UK. I think this is a very special 14:54 place, uh, Texas, and I think that it's going to be the last stronghold if if everywhere else 15:00 does fall, and who knows, it's still still too early to tell. Uh, but if everywhere everywhere else does fall, I 15:05 think Texas would want to would be a final stronghold of fighting against totalitarianism. That's that's incredible. So, you're 15:13 now again, voting with your wallet, voting with your feet, but not everybody's going to necessarily vote 15:20 with their feet. Everybody kind of can vote with their wallet by learning more about  bitcoin, right? So now I want to 15:26 just kind of switch gears to maybe fast forwarding through through 15:32 you know all the journey to to getting  bitcoin in the hands of people and it's really not fast forwarding because you already mentioned that you uh that you 15:39 were working in the education space before. Um so now you're building Jippi 15:44 and this is at the heart an educational tool. Um do you want to just describe 15:51 what Jippi is, how you came up with the idea uh and really what the what the 15:56 your your what you're executing on and building uh now in in Texas. Yes. So JP 16:04 just for a reference, it means actual cost in Japanese and it's a tiein to the 16:10 actual cost of our inflation based money being this insane level of inflation 16:16 that we can't control. uh and it's it's a hidden tax on the general 16:22 population. So we wanted the name to sort of tie into some meaning deep deep 16:27 rooted meaning in  bitcoin. So with with the company 16:33 I wish when I was starting to learn about  bitcoin that there was a way to gify the 16:40 onboarding experience because it was still quite hard to understand. You know, the  bitcoin standard is is amazing and it's like the  bitcoin Bible, but it 16:47 still covers so many complicated topics and it does take you a long time to to 16:53 sort of understand the technicalities of of what  bitcoin means. Um, and by the 16:58 way, it's such an amazing amazing piece of technology. Like this thing is like the purest form of money known to 17:05 mankind. Like I could go off in so many tangents to talk about how magical this thing is 17:10 and how it will solve all of humanity's problems, but the the core problem for for me with trying to solve with Jippi 17:16 is 98% of people still don't understand basic concepts to do with  bitcoin. Like 17:22 what is the blockchain? What's 21 million the supply cap? And block XYZ did a study that shows intent to 17:29 purchase actually increases by 50% following education. So those with limited knowledge are 28% likely to 17:35 purchase. those with expert knowledge is 17% likely to purchase. So there's literally a direct correlation between 17:40 someone understanding what this thing is and actually purchasing it. But because 98% of people don't understand the 17:46 basics, there's a massive barrier to entry for people. With our age group, which is is going to 17:53 be really important, they are going to be one of the largest and richest generations in history, Gen Z, uh with 17:59 12 trillion of expected purchasing power. So, we at JP, we see this as as 18:04 future  bitcoin purchases that we're going to need to unlock, but we're fighting a struggle, right? Like, if 18:10 people don't understand the basics of  bitcoin, maybe they're going to be taken 18:15 by the siren call of crypto casinos and they're going to go down this whole rabbit hole of of shitcoins, which is 18:21 going to be a travesty. So, how can we gamify the experience, make it fun, engaging so that you're actually 18:27 learning about  bitcoin, earning  bitcoin, doing it the right way? And that's really what Jippi is. We're building the Creating Jippi: Gamifying  bitcoin Education 18:33 global  bitcoin earn ramp for Gen Z. And the first product we we built is Pokémon Go for  bitcoin. So, it's really 18:39 exciting. I can go on. Sorry. Just thought I took 18:46 a nice pause there. No, no, you're good. We can edit all this. It's super editable. Cool. 18:53 Um, okay. Cool. So, the the word that I that kind of made my my ears perk up 18:59 there is earn ramp because a lot of people hear on-ramp and on board, but you said earn ramp. Can 19:07 you go into into what you mean by that and why you've decided to to go forward 19:14 with that strategy? Yes, we have done a whole bunch of research around what Gen 19:22 Z are interested in because at the end of the day, I think I mentioned the  bitcoin standard. You they have an eight 19:29 the Gen Z population have an 8-second attention span. So that's abysmal. Respectfully, that's abysmal. And we all 19:36 we all know it's abysmal. We all know that we get the dopamine when we scroll on Instagram. So you'd rather scroll 19:42 instead of reading the  bitcoin standard. So really we have this tiny window through which we can capture interest 19:49 specifically. So Gen Z uh 90% of them play some type of game. Uh 70% want to 19:56 earn some kind of reward and according to Zebedee 51% actually want to earn  bitcoin 20:02 rewards. So what that what that shows us is the lens through which we can deliver 20:09 a a  bitcoin on onboarding experience is through rewards, 20:14 games and AR in this case augmented reality. So the vision here is to build something 20:24 that backdoors education. Uh we don't want to lead with education. I think we want to lead with a game that 20:31 just encourages people to explore  bitcoin in a way that is fun. So imagine you're catching these  bitcoin themed 20:36 beasts, these creatures in AR around your city and they're all themed to do with some kind of  bitcoin topic like 20:42 blockchain Bob Sata Nakamoto Nick. To catch this thing, you have to actually answer a trivia question and then once 20:49 you've caught it, you actually get SATs  bitcoin as rewards. So that like there's quite a nice model for us to 20:56 capture the interest of a whole demographic, a whole new generation of  bitcoiners, bring them through the doors 21:01 of  bitcoin, be like, "Hello, here's some free  bitcoin. Enjoy yourself." And then 21:07 just keep people coming back and playing the game. So I think I think that we have the potential to be one of the 21:13 largest on-ramps into the space if we can do this right. Fold is also doing amazing things um with with the 21:19 onboarding experience. So, I just think gaming in the  bitcoin space is not being done well yet, and we want to do that 21:27 through Jippi. I love what you're doing, though, because like my kids love Pokémon Go. They're not going to open 21:33 fold though to like spin the wheel. But Jippi, they would they'd be down to 21:38 catch some, you know,  bitcoin themed Pokemon. And I think that's probably relevant for a 21:45 lot of people. Like, my kids aren't Gen Z. Um, I think actually my I think one 21:51 of my kids is like maybe right at the border, but um it's I mean gaming is all like I don't 21:57 personally play a lot of games, but I think I'm unique. I think a lot of people play games to your point, you 22:03 know, like what did you say? 90% of Gen Z. 98%. Yeah. 98% 22:10 90 90%. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's a ton. Yeah, I'm in the I'm in the minority 10% 22:15 there. I don't really game either. Um, really? Yeah. Uh, I I tried it when I 22:21 was younger. I just wasn't much of a fan. But what I will say is one of the games that I did play when I was in 22:26 college was Fortnite. And that was a very like eye opening 22:34 experience for me seeing people spend hundreds, sometimes thousands of dollars 22:39 on, they call them V-Bucks in Fortnite, right? On V-Bucks. And people are like, 22:44 they're spending real dollars. Now, you could think that the US dollar is worth whatever, but at 22:51 the end of the day, a real valuable currency in fake currency. 22:58 And that was an unlock for me on the gamification piece of 23:04 I wouldn't say Fortnite's educational, maybe for some strategy, I guess. And I 23:10 I don't know. You could you could twist and turn your way into saying how it's educational, but it's not. It's not. 23:17 But the the idea when you have when you have Lady Gaga and freaking Nicki Minaj shooting up a whole player field of 23:24 other players, I don't think it's I don't think it's educational. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's that's a 23:31 very fair point. Um, but all that to say is like when something is captivating and entertaining, then people are 23:38 willing to put dollars or currency into it uh to enhance that experience. And in 23:45 your in the case of Jippi, it's not even necessarily to enhance the experience, it's to keep them coming back and keep 23:50 that experience feeling like like uh that that is the goal. That is finding the treasure. That is catching the 23:56 beast. um and the gamification uh of of all learning I think is kind of where 24:01 where things are going and and I'm interested to hear your perspective on uh you know just education in general 24:07 and how is it really like that uh you know stick and carrot type model um that 24:14 that I've mentioned to you Jason in the past of you know getting somebody to do a task and then rewarding them or are 24:20 there other ways that you've thought about how we can just get more people educated which then according to the 24:26 research you cited has a direct correlation with them getting interested in and wanting to learn and earn more 24:32  bitcoin. Education is is a hard one with bit  bitcoin because it's not linear. Like we 24:38 were talking at the beginning, one person's epiphany. 24:44 It doesn't mirror precisely. It could another person's epiphany might not be the same person's epiphany. So there's 24:51 there's lots of angles that you could take with it, right? It's like the freedom angle is one. The number go up 24:57 technology. Oh, cool. I have this thing. I buy more of it. My money increases in value while fiat decimates in value like Challenges in Educating Gen Z 25:03 toilet paper and goes to zero. Like there's that angle, too. Uh and then there's like the [ __ ] coinery of it all. 25:09 Like just playing around like trying to buy these things because it's the next big, 25:14 you know, Dogecoin like oh the next  bitcoin like no once you understand  bitcoin you know that not to be true. So 25:21 there's lots of angles. I think uh that's where the gamification comes in. 25:27 If I think back to when I was, you know, 18, 19, first hearing about  bitcoin, 25:33 the tools were there, the individual was there, but the lesson was not taken 25:39 aboard because my my brain where I was in my life, my mental models were not in 25:44 the right space to receive the message. If there had been something to say, 25:49 well, cool. There's a game. It's like Pokemon Go. And I remember at that point everyone was freaking playing Pokemon 25:55 Go. It was it was huge, massive. If I play this game where I'm capturing 26:01 these creatures and I actually get a currency, I get this thing called  bitcoin. When I catch these creatures, I 26:07 naturally start stacking this currency. If I get given more and more and more of it, maybe there's like a vested interest 26:13 into understanding what this thing actually is. and maybe after I hold I don't know 26:19 hundreds $100 worth of of rewards or something maybe I'll buy some like okay 26:26 well I have these $100 of rewards it's still increasing in value maybe I'll buy $1,000 and then you sort of start to 26:31 like your investment tapers up so that's really what I think we want to do here is we want to try and crack what makes 26:38 more sense with this generation I think it's gaming and rewards that's the 26:43 that's the vision at least But yeah, what about you guys? I mean, 26:49 I'm I'm always interested in hearing more about onboarding and and what worked for you. So, what was what was the angle that got you guys into 26:54  bitcoin? Well, before we go there, I just want to say how cool it is. So this week we're seeing protests, riots, 27:04 violence, and it's it's really cool to see I I 27:09 feel like you saw brokenness in the system and said, I need to do something 27:16 about this. I can't stand back. But you took this like peaceful 27:22 let's have fun revolutionary approach where where you're just building games 27:27 to a as an act of protest. Does that sound accurate? Yes, that's my philosophy. I 27:34 as a libertarian I believe in someone's fundamental right to make whatever decision is right for them and live life 27:40 how they see fit so long as they're not hurting other people. And I think that applies to most of  bitcoin's mentality. 27:47 So, I I won't, you know, I won't be the one that forces it down people's 27:53 throats. That is not my MO. I don't want to be the one that says, "You're dumb. I don't have time to tell you about it." Like, that that mentality might have 28:00 worked before, but not anymore. Like, we we need to do something else. Uh the the approach of 28:07 throwing people inside a  bitcoin exchange app in front of a smash buy button may have worked for a period and 28:13 you'll you'll get some of the early adopt adopters buying  bitcoin that way. 28:18 And that's amazing because that's the way that Swan operated and River and Unchained and Strike and all these 28:24 companies that have onboarded the early adopters. But now we're like we're sort of slowly tapering up to mass adoption 28:32 slowly but surely. So the strategies need to change. And I think that we should be doing it in a fun way where we 28:38 can take the people who may be like, "Well,  bitcoin is fine. I' I've heard about it. I'm not really interested, but 28:44 I'd rather play something that captures my interest that turns me on to it eventually, so I just naturally become a 28:50  bitcoiner through. Is your business accepting a form of payment that stores value over time? A recent survey showed 28:58 the number one challenge that small business owners are facing today is inflation. You raise prices, renegotiate 29:06 with vendors, try to stay ahead, but your dollars keep losing purchasing power. At the  bitcoin Payments Adviser, 29:12 we help business owners like you accept  bitcoin, a form of money that's built to resist inflation. Unlike dollars, 29:20  bitcoin has a fixed supply. And that means the value that you receive today has the potential to hold or grow over 29:27 time, not quietly erode. Our service makes it simple. No servers and tech 29:32 headaches, just easy setup, white glove support, integration with your existing systems. If you're ready to explore a 29:39 smarter way to get paid, one that helps you fight inflation instead of fall behind, visit bitcoin 29:45 paymentsadvisor.com. Again, that's bitcoin paymentsadvisor.com. 29:52 Have you gotten feedback from users? Have people do you feel like people are um learning about  bitcoin and using it 29:59 and and through the gamification uh becoming  bitcoiners? I mean, yes. I would say that we've got early users who 30:06 are using it. There's a really cool video uh that we put up online of this user in Austin um riding around Austin 30:12 on his rims, his  bitcoin orange glowing rims at night catching these beasts and 30:17 he sent it to us and he went, "Dude, this game is amazing." So, it's nice to see real world scenarios where people 30:24 are actually using it. It is still early for us, you know, we we launched the Beast Catch uh live in March for Top 30:31 Builder. So, we were on this uh accel we're on Pleblab's accelerator and Pleblab is an amazing company here based 30:39 out of Austin that has a bunch of companies in in their accelerator. We're one of them. And every year they run 30:44 this this uh competition where they try and find some of the best builders in the space. Jippi was on the program this 30:50 year and we ended up winning against 14 other teams. And so again, that's like more that's more fuel to the fire that 30:58 we have something special here because all the judges were unanimous. They all decided that we are the most marketable. 31:04 We all we all they all decided we have something that is investable truly 31:10 combined with our research at South by Southwest that we did on the street. We got a beast costume. We handed out cards 31:17 and  bitcoin free  bitcoin rewards and we were pulling in conversion rates of up to 3.6% which is way above industry 31:23 average. And Jack helped us with that. So you're you're a hero. Yeah. Yeah, I mean I was so I I was uh 31:30 privileged enough to help with with the um top builder marketing blitz uh for 31:36 for Jippi and I was doing the digital marketing of the Tik Tok and Instagram 31:41 ads and yeah those conversion rates like when you first sent them to me I I was 31:47 like oh no like did I do something wrong and then you were like no these are like so much higher than industry average and 31:53 I was like what I was like that like I that just means that there's something there people were interested in it. 31:59 People saw it and they're like, "Oh, I can earn this thing that people keep tell talking about, but I haven't took 32:06 the time to learn about by just by playing a game that, you 32:11 know, everybody has everybody remembers the summer of Pokemon Go that it took the world by storm. So, when it's a Depoliticizing  bitcoin 32:18 revamped version of that in a sense, but you can actually get paid to play it, then it's a very uh it's a very 32:27 compelling story. The the energy during Southby, which you know, and I'm happy 32:32 to to go deeper into Pleb Lab and and all the things that is going on there, too, and and your experience working 32:37 with with those guys because it is a really um unique uh group that's that's come together in Austin to to try and 32:44 build and and innovate forward in  bitcoin. But yeah, I that that top builder uh journey was a ton of fun to 32:51 work with you and see the and see the excitement around around everything with 32:56 with the monster dancing in the street and hang hand hang hand hang hand hang hand hang hand hang hand hang hand hang hand hang hand hang hand hang hand hang hand hang hand hang hand hang hand hang hand hang hand hang hand hang hand hang hand hanging out I think it was I think it was EK in the in the EK and Janna EK 33:04 and Janna was on the street and they were dancing at the Yeah, it was it was great. It was great and and I think the 33:10 feedback that you got from that was also super valuable um from you know both regular people in the streets of Austin 33:16 and and who are in town for the event but also uh the students that you talked to uh during that time as well. And I'd 33:22 love for you to kind of re rehash and and go into some of that because that that is your target audience those 33:27 students and those you know soon to be uh uh professionals in the workplace. 33:33 Yeah, I would love to because I think it's important to to discuss where we are politically with  bitcoin. So the 33:39 overwhelming consensus was positive. I think using the slogan Pokemon Go for  bitcoin may eventually get us in 33:46 trouble, but for now, you know, it's like a nice way to sort of tie into there's this thing that already exists 33:51 and we're adding  bitcoin to it. So that was great because we got lots of interest from from that uh and that 33:58 helped us win the competition. But we did also go to UT campus here in Austin and they're one of probably the most 34:04 liberal colleges around and the response 34:09 was very negative. One person and I quote told me I would 34:14 rather die than understand  bitcoin. So I think that we are at a perilous place 34:22 when it comes to the con the the the conception of what this thing means to 34:28 different people in society. Right? Does that make sense? Like the liberals have been polarized against it at this point. 34:34 So do you think that was the reason it was it was political is the reason um that particular individual would rather 34:41 die than understand  bitcoin? Yes. because I believe now at this stage 34:47 uh god bless him because Trump won and I think it's a great thing for  bitcoin in general. Adoption is increasing. We're 34:52 seeing all the ETFs coming in. I mean it's like a great time to be a  bitcoiner. But by aligning with maybe 34:58 more of like the conservative ideals, I think we've uh alienated 35:04 everyone on the left from  bitcoin. Like they they have from an outsiders perspective a view that this tool is now 35:10 a conservative tool, which it's not. This thing is apolitical. always has been. So I think it's in all of our 35:18 interest to figure out how do we take a step back to the center and how do we get both sides to come and accept this 35:24 tool without being political because it's like guys  bitcoin is for everyone. It doesn't matter who you are, where 35:30 you're from, you should be seeing that your money is being freaking decimated left, right, whoever in Congress are 35:36 printing insane amounts of money and like it's only going to go to zero the dollar. So like come on, we we have to 35:43 we have to get back to to to together. You you couldn't have said that better. 35:48 I I 100% agree with you and it's really unfortunate when we're cutting out half the country because we are politicizing 35:56 an apolitical money. But absolutely I mean I think it's an I think it's an interesting debate and what's what's 36:03 hard is yes there is that sentiment of you know 36:10 orange man orange coin bad but there also there needs to be and 36:17 again to bring it back to Jippi this is why I like the you know fun playful 36:23 harmless way of uh of you know getting people educated on on  bitcoin because 36:30 it's not just one side good, one side bad. It's like there needs to be to use 36:35 a a a protocol term consensus of this thing is apolitical. It's better for the 36:41 good of not even necessarily just the country but also I think we'd all agree humanity of having a a you know 36:49 separation of the money printer and the state. And 36:55 it it it's not just it's something that is continuing to play out of where it 37:02 feels like it's getting more political to the point where it's like that horseshoe effect of like now we're just 37:08 back to where we started of everyone either hate of everyone hating it. But I think it's there's the other side of 37:14 that spectrum of everybody loving it. And that's what, you know, we need to get more people educated on because then 37:20 it's like, oh, this can help, you know, provide better services for any issue or 37:26 any problem or any group that um that you're looking to kind of help support 37:32 or provide uh additional um awareness or or education to. And that's the I think 37:39 that's going to be the really interesting piece in the next, you know, year or so as the US election cycle 37:44 starts to ramp up again with midterms and then ultimately 2028. Um because if it continues to go down a political a 37:51 political path, it's just going to get weird. Uh because there's going to be more and more  bitcoiners that are on 37:58 every and each side of the spectrum. So then people are just going to realize that they're arguing about nothing 38:03 because it's like, okay, yeah, we're both  bitcoiners, but now we're just arguing about an entirely different 38:08 issue that has nothing to do with  bitcoin. So then you're just back to regular old politics. Yeah. And it 38:13 what's interesting as well with where we are in a cycle is all these institutions are adopting 38:20  bitcoin. All these treasury companies are are starting to bring in  bitcoin treasuries. But despite that, we're 38:27 seeing a massive lull in Google search queries for  bitcoin and blocks on the the blockchain are half empty. Like me 38:33 is half empty. Like what what's going on? So we're trying to work this out. No one really knows obviously, but one 38:40 possible hypothesis is that everyone who or most people have heard of  bitcoin 38:46 now. Most people have heard about  bitcoin and they've already made their decision about it. That's a problem. If 38:52 you make a snap decision about this thing that you don't truly understand, that's a problem. It means it's not just about understanding it, but you're now 38:58 actively fighting against it, that's a huge, massive issue. It's like seeing all of the stuff that's going on 39:04 with the Doge cuts and like you have Elon Musk who is obviously kind of polarizing, but this dude has spent 39:10 months in government, has uncovered like an insane amount of corruption and 39:16 mispending and crazy things the government are doing. And not only are you not accepting it as truth, liberals 39:24 not accepting it as truth, but you're fighting against it. Like you're actually stopping him from trying to do 39:29 the work to fix the current system. Like that just goes to show how polarized we truly are. And  bitcoin is now 39:36 unfortunately a part of it. So how do we unblock from this situation? I don't know. But we've got to try something. 39:43 Yeah. I I think the way to do that is through providing just better goods and 39:49 services both in from an education and a non-education just pure business standpoint while using  bitcoin as just a 39:57 just the money, right? It's not necessarily of we need more wallets, we The Future of  bitcoin Adoption and Education 40:02 need more exchanges. those are built and they work and I'm sure new ones will come into play and try to do different 40:09 you know financial tools whether it's in regards to lending or or whatever it may 40:14 be or treasury companies etc. But at the end of the day if somebody builds a 40:20 kick-ass business that can provide me a better service 40:26 for a cheaper price because they're because they're denominating their their currency in  bitcoin. I don't care what 40:32 their politics is. Like if I need if I if I have a leak in my house, which is 40:38 hypothetical because I don't have a house, but if I had a leak in in in my roof, then I would want the the repair 40:46 man to come who's going to give me the best service. And if that's a if that's somebody who is using  bitcoin, then I 40:52 could, you know, I could almost come to a conclusion of like, hey, yeah, this guy's he he's 40:58 taken a low time preference approach to provide me a better good and service. And, you know,  bitcoiners give the best 41:04 best referrals and the most honest feedback. So, like, so, so it's it's that push and pull. Um, I think that's 41:10 how we get it depoliticized, honestly, is just stop making it political and let 41:15 politicians make everything political because that's what they do. That's their job. But  bitcoiners, yes, we've 41:21 we've kind of wandered into the world of politics and now we have relationships, some good, some bad. But at the end of 41:27 the day, like you just got to build things and you just got to keep pushing forward better a better future. That's 41:35 what that's what I see. You know, I've been told I'm naive and 41:40 I've been told that the that the world will eventually take out take out the light inside me, but uh but not not 41:48 today. Not today. Going back though to what we were saying earlier about a quiet peaceful 41:53 revolution like you can vote with your money today, right? You can extract your money out of the fiat system. You can 41:59 save in  bitcoin. You can pay with  bitcoin. You can you can choose every day to opt out of the broken fiat 42:06 system. Um, and then you can take it a step further like what you're doing, Oliver, and building 42:13 building. I mean, you can you can build educational tools and games and and all kinds of things. Um, one question I have 42:20 for you, Oliver, is uh like what is it that you're teaching people in the game? 42:26 This week, I've heard should have bought  bitcoin years ago. I guess I missed the 42:31 boat. This week I heard I don't have $100,000 so I guess I'll never own  bitcoin. There's all kinds of things 42:38 that we hear every day. Um, you know, different blockers. Um, and we've talked 42:45 about some of the political blockers. So, what are the things that you're kind of teaching people through the app and 42:51 through the game to help remove some of those blockers? Yes. With education, 42:56 specifically technical education, it is a challenge to break down these concepts 43:04 in a way that doesn't alienate folks because it is so heavy like to understand what proof of work actually 43:10 is. Like what's hashing? Like how does that work? Why why does that play into me being able to use money? Like what 43:17 what's the relationship there? So what we've started to do is just like 43:22 have a broad ven diagram, a mind map of these topics that is surface level enough to capture interest. For example, 43:30 what is the blockchain? Who's Satoshi? What's the 21 million supply cap? 43:36 Just just broad broad concepts. And so when you catch a beast, you get options 43:42 and you'll answer one of those trivia questions and it gives you the answer. I'm sorry to interrupt. Does it show 43:47 does it tell you why these things are ma why these things matter or are relevant to them um and kind of take it a step 43:55 deeper and like how does this impact their lives personally? We do want to bring in some personalization for sure but at the moment it's just for the 44:02 beast catch and we have structured education as well. So we actually have islands of courses. So right now if you 44:08 do beginner island you'll get a bunch of cards uh you you'll get like an Instagram story approach where we've 44:15 given you the topics you can tap through it's quite like easily consumable. One 44:20 level down in intermediate island you actually have like modules and you'll start to see images come through and 44:26 paragraphs and you'll you'll read about the history of money and you'll go more in depth and finally there's a card 44:31 matching game. So at the end, the final island, the mastery island is you're matching these cards and then it gives 44:37 you a blur about that topic. So what we're trying to do here is like reinforce certain topics so that you can 44:42 make the connection in your head as to why this is important. But yeah, eventually I think we need to find some 44:49 way to tailor education more towards that particular individual that might understand certain things 44:56 to do with their backstory. So that's that's going to be far off and we're going to work on that in the future. 45:01 That's a I find that's a challenge because everyone has a different story. 45:06 I built a cashless donations for the homeless app. Um I co- co-founded that. 45:13 Um and it's like one of the things we found is with homelessness, everyone has 45:19 a unique story. It's like I the same week my girlfriend left me, my home burned down and that led to depression 45:28 and and you know there's every all everyone has a different story and uh 45:33 reason for how they ended up on the streets and similarly uh 45:39 you know what what is the blocker for understanding bitcoin it's going to be different for everyone um I built this 45:45 like page for uh why should a business accept bitcoin The thing is it's a little bit different 45:52 for everyone. Like like it's for some people it's like I want to accept a form of money that stores value over time. 45:57 For other people it's like well I want to opt out of like broken you know financial system, banking fragility. Uh 46:04 like there's all kinds of reasons and it's hard to know what that particular 46:10 individual their reasons are. You know maybe choose your own adventure if you if you have a 46:16 gaming experience or something. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. That's why 46:21 that's why the g the game being entertaining is a whole another that is like the dopamine hit, right? Because 46:26 when you when you hear education, you're like, "Oh, what am I going to read a textbook? Like, am I going to watch it? Am I going to watch a YouTube video? Am 46:32 I going to chat GBT?" Like, no. But then when you when you can keep people hooked in a game, uh then you all of a sudden 46:39 find yourself learning just through osmosis more or less because you have to learn these things in order to succeed 46:46 um in you know earn the prize or win or win the game. 46:52 Think about like like uh TV and and award or game shows. 46:59 those are like those are relatively entertaining and then you actually find yourself watching Jeopardy and you're like oh now I know this random fact 47:06 about the you know the the Ottoman Empire from whatever year because 47:13 because it was a it's Jeopardy. It's it's it's entertaining. Um maybe 47:19 Jeopardy is not the best example there because it's literally a trivia show but you know you know what I'm saying. 47:25 Yeah. And I I I think I I definitely agree with that. Uh the way I look at it is I don't even remember what my touch 47:32 points were for me. I know some of them which I gave you at the beginning, but I don't know the actual full touch points 47:40 that I needed to experience for exposure therapy quote unquote that then sort of 47:45 shaped the puzzle piece in my mind that helped me to understand  bitcoin. Once we 47:51 crack that, once we understand, oh, right, then we can formulate a journey 47:56 for each person, like that would speed up that onboarding process so dramatically. And Oliver, one of the 48:01 things that I remember you and I talked about basically at length, I don't this is probably a month ago, um was like Gen 48:08 Z and you know the gamification, but also just some of the um habits and 48:15 things that my generation's been grown up into into being part of our daily 48:21 life, right? And you you asked before like what was one of the things that uh 48:27 got myself to start understanding or learning  bitcoin or even buying it. Um 48:34 you know when I was first getting orange build and for me all you know I I'd heard about  bitcoin. I kind of the the 48:40 idea made sense in my head like uh cut out the middleman no need for banks all 48:45 that type of stuff. But one of the things as well that really got me over the edge was I was uh gambling in 48:54 college because that's what people my age did. You would, you know, put money on games and try to win it back. And I 49:00 remember I was having a conversation with somebody close to me and I was like, dude, like I just keep losing. 49:05 Like I'm losing like it wasn't that much, but it was like, you know, 25, 50, maybe 75 bucks a week I was losing in 49:12 gambling. And I would have some positive weeks, but then I was I was just thinking back and I was like, "Oh my god, like this is this is adding up." So 49:20 this person, he was like, "Hey, I don't know what your He's like, "Whatever your 49:25 unit per bet is, take one bet per week that you'd be putting out and just put 49:31 it into  bitcoin." So like that is your bet for the week because over time,  bitcoin will go up. And you know, I was 49:39 very fortunate. I mean this was I don't know I was a freshman or sophomore in college when this was happening. Um so 49:47 that was like the almost unlock for me. Now what's unfortunate is I don't now I 49:54 no longer view  bitcoin as a gamble. I view it as actually a safe you know 49:59 relatively risk uh lower risk um uh savings and and investment in in my 50:06 future. But that idea or that possibility of of like taking something 50:11 and putting it into taking something from the gamified world of gambling and and sports betting and then just putting 50:17 it in something somewhere else. That was really uh powerful for me because obviously that got me to where you know 50:23 we are sitting and talking here today. Um but I think that's what is so interesting about Gen Z as a as a 50:30 population. It's like we have these habits that we've grown up with that have become so normalized and you have 50:37 to build the earn ramp to get to get them to switch over to what I think we 50:45 all agree is a better habit of low time preference and actually saving for a better tomorrow and looking through 50:51 things with a lens of like oh this is sustainable this is you know freedom focused and this is fair versus 50:59 something like gambling where the house always wins or like uh you know I could go on and on about all of the all the 51:06 kind of denigrated habits that we have in in our everyday society, but um but 51:12 that that was just something like that was when when you asked that question, I was like, "Huh, what was the actual impetus for me to start to start DCA?" 51:19 And and it really was just another another bet more or less. Um and it 51:25 turned out it turned out to be a pretty good one because I didn't even realize that it was it wasn't a bet. It was a it 51:30 was an investment in my future. Yeah. So yours was actually playing with these units. It's like actually playing with 51:36 these units and seeing numbers change. That's that's what yours was. And so I think for this future period where we're 51:42 all trying to work out how do we structure these touch points for Gen Z 51:48 and  bitcoin or anyone anyone with with  bitcoin. That's going to be a challenge to figure out. Uh, for example, Jopaki, 51:55 who's another company out of Pleblab, they have a really cool lottery game where you it's basically like Bingo. Uh, 52:02 and you you sign up to Yopaki and you get you see this this board with a bunch of cards and you're you're basically 52:08 going to be matching cards. They give you a new card every week. Uh, every day, sorry. So, what you're seeing is a 52:15 touch point where you're like, there's this app that gives you  bitcoin when you match a card. You come back every day. 52:22 like this is such a cool way to touch point experience  bitcoin. The other one is like how do we actually use  bitcoin? 52:29 One of my first touch points to to SATS was when I actually moved to to Austin 52:35 and I was first exposed to Oshi and I bought I remember buying a lobster roll 52:40 with  bitcoin with SATS uh and it was just freaking monumental seeing there's this magical internet money that 52:47 actually can be redeemed for goods and services like that's another touch point. So, how can Jippi like bring in 52:52 these touch points as a way to onboard someone, educate them, allow them to stack SATs, go spend  bitcoin, and then 53:00 maybe launch off into the industry and start experiencing other services, 53:05  bitcoin services. That's the goal. That's what we want to build. No, that's awesome. Um, and I'm I'm 53:12 excited to see it because yeah, we need more we need more touch points. We need more  bitcoin podcasts. Shout out. Uh, 53:18 no, but I I think we need we need more everything in  bitcoin because I truly believe that  bitcoiners are the ones 53:25 that take action in a world of inaction. Uh, and the more 53:31 just different thoughts and approaches and ideas that we can get to bring on 53:39 that next generation of  bitcoiners because at the end of the day, it's just it's going to be everybody. So, if you 53:46 can get even a little bit of sats in somebody's hands, that's what we mean when we say we're still early because so 53:52 many people don't have that uh don't have that privilege yet or don't have the the awareness yet. And it's it's a 54:01 it's a you know dilemma to get to get that to um to to get that to the next 54:08 100 million billion ultimately 8 billion people. Uh and it's it's tools like Jippi that are that are helping push 54:14 that forward. Thank you. Yeah, we are really excited. Uh I truly believe that we have something and and my mission as 54:20 CEO of Jippi is to get funding. So we actually we decided to partner with a company called Time Stamp instead of 54:28 going to VCs where that's such a [ __ ] game honestly like it's one of the worst games to play as venture capital. 54:34 Um, so I think going to try to democratize fundraising through a crowd 54:40 raising platform like Timestamp is really powerful with a  bitcoin company because you literally go to the plebs 54:46 and say, "Hey, I have this application. I have this service. We're trying to build the parallel  bitcoin economy. Will 54:52 you invest in a company like Jippi for equity?" Like help literally help build the parallel economy. So we are on time 55:00 stamp at the moment. We're trying to raise 250K. We've raised uh 66. so far 55:06 pretty decent. But yeah, we we invite anyone to to invest in in JP. We have 55:11 different sort of perks and fundraising uh rewards for different tiers, but you can invest in JP with as little as $100. 55:19 So that's how we're going to get funding is through the plebs. Uh you can find us timestampfinancial.com is is the website 55:24 and that shows all the campaign. That's really cool. I didn't realize that. Is that kind of like Thunderfunder? 55:29 Correct. Yes. Similar. Very similar to Thunderfunder. Yeah. I love that because it gives people a 55:35 way. I mean, it's like Kickstarter, but for businesses and something you're passionate about and and 55:42 getting like realworld tools for the average person. Not everyone has 55:49 savings. Not everyone can start hodling. Uh but most everyone has a smartphone 55:55 and can have fun on it through the form of game. Yeah. 56:03 like Kickstarter, but with a vital difference that with Indiegogo and Kickstarter, you just get perks. You 56:08 don't actually own anything. So with with companies like Thunderfunder and Timestamp, you actually invest in the 56:15 company, we give you equity, so you literally become a shareholder in the company. So that's a big difference, I think. Uh you just the the byproduct is 56:22 you get something fun because we do have perks and rewards as well. Is there a  bitcoin component to that as well? um or 56:29 or maybe they can like provide  bitcoin as the form of um money when they you 56:36 know invest or or how does that work? Uh yeah, there's only so much I can say at this stage because I have to let uh time 56:41 stamp do the the announcements themselves but uh yeah it's really it's 56:47 really exciting. They have some really cool things to announce very soon. Uh at this stage, JP accepts fiat, so you can 56:53 add your credit card or you can uh do a direct bank transfer. But in the future, we we hope to have some more options 56:59 available to you. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. We're confident that this 57:04 once we get our fundraising, it will it will be pedal to the metal, you know, 57:11 foot down on the accelerator and we'll be able to evolve the game into 57:16 something way more fun and engaging instead of just catching beasts for sats. Maybe there's a concept where 57:22 you're actually able to battle these beasts. So, there's there's a really Yeah, we've got some really exciting things planned that require us to get 57:28 fundraising. So, do do help us achieve our goals. you know, the plebs will support us and we'll go on to build some 57:33 great things. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody listening, uh, go go support Oliver and 57:39 own a piece of own a piece of his company. Yes. Own a piece of Jippi. Yeah. No, 57:45 this is I think this has been a really insightful uh conversation because one 57:50 of you know as somebody who I guess is Gen Z and not to speak on behalf of my 57:55 generation, but it's something that I'm really focused on of helping get more 58:02 people in my generation involved in the  bitcoin ecosystem and coming to meetups and ultimately learning more and and all 58:07 that um all that stuff that  bitcoin just does such a natural job of pulling 58:13 people into. Uh, I just want it to happen a little faster and and Oliver, I think you do as well. Uh, and that's why 58:20 Hell yeah. And that's why Jippi is is exciting for for uh myself. Um, because, 58:25 you know, again, I'm in that 10% that doesn't necessarily game, but I realize that that is the minority. So many 58:32 people are are use are gaming. So many people are on their phone 247. Uh, and if we can just get more people to you to 58:41 uh maybe learn a little bit about about this  bitcoin thing while that is already 58:46 occurring, then uh we can we can help we can help them out. Help help me help you 58:51 is a lot of times a lot of times I find myself uh repeating to myself. Yes, 58:57  bitcoin will eat the world if we can get everyone to the table. Come on guys, let's work together to try and make this 59:03 thing the reserve currency of the world. Let's let's stop fighting. But thank you. Yeah, I appreciate that, Jack. Uh, yeah, I think we have magic here and 59:09 it's just about trying to speed up this process as fast as we possibly can and 59:15 get it into the hands down with fiat. And get it into the hands of regular everyday people, not just treasury 59:21 companies and institutions and corporations, right? Yes, sir. The plebs need  bitcoin more than institutions. 59:28 Yeah, 100%. Oliver, thank you for joining us. Where can people find you if they want to learn more? Yes. So, you 59:35 can find the Jippi's website is jippy.app. That's jip pi.ap. And you can find us there. That actually 59:42 links out to the uh app on both Google Play and iOS on the App Store. So, you 59:48 can download the app today. My uh X is Hey Alpo, H Y L P O. So, you're welcome 59:55 to follow me and start the dialogue. Uh, and I mentioned timestamp. So, you can head to timestampfinanicial.com. 1:00:02 that's where our crowd is and invest today. Um we'll be closing that out soonish. So uh it won't be that long 1:00:08 until we finish the fundraising. So we'd love to to have you be a part of it. But yeah, just um it's just a pleasure. It's 1:00:16 a pleasure to to speak to folks like you guys who are in the same boat as me. We're all in this mission together and 1:00:22 we're trying to do just trying to do the best for the world and  bitcoin is that is that thing. 1:00:28 Just got the app downloaded. I'm I'm pumped to play. Enjoy. All right. All 1:00:33 right, fellas. Thank you for joining us, Oliver. Awesome. Thank you, guys. This was fun. Thank 1:00:39 you. [Music]